Tuesday, March 6, 2007

No Child Left Behind

A crisis was narrowly averted in the nick of time in Lakewood, NJ.

Earlier today the word went out that all of the town’s high schools for girls would be shut down indefinitely due to some girls not having any school to attend next year. Later in the day the problem must have been solved, as a follow-up call retracted the original shut-down.

I previously wrote a post here regarding the issue of girls not having any school to attend to. Although I was very clear in my comments to that post that I was not referring specifically to Lakewood, from the storm of comments the post elicited it was obvious that this problem is quite significant there. Thankfully, this blog had a part in publicizing the issue and a potential solution, as was made clear to me through various channels.

Independent Frum Thinker laments the fact that such strong-arm tactics were necessary to force the schools into accepting every single girl, but I valiantly salute those taking such an uncompromising stand on the issue.

Every girl is a Yiddishe Tochter and a future Yiddishe Momma. Every girl is a Bas Melech and deserves to be treated as such.

Baruch Hashem, this year things were settled in time. Hopefully, in the future there won’t be anything to settle, as schools will band together to guarantee every girl her deserved slot, as per my original suggestion.


Married and Navigating Jewish Brooklyn said...

Glad to hear some good news :)

socialworker/frustrated mom said...

Great to hear and yasher kochach to you and your blog for having a hand in the matter. I guess a blog can go a long way.

The Dreamer said...

Good to hear the news.
I know of girls who weren't accepted to high schools a couple of years ago, in Lakewood as well as Brooklyn. Most are not doing too great, to say the least.

Anonymous said...

I chanced upon your site and felt compelled to comment. Firstly, I believe the phone call was made since one of the High Schools closed recently, and all but ONE girl was not accepted into another school.

I am shocked and appalled that this could go on in a city that calls itself a "makom Torah". As you stated, every girl is a future Yiddishe Momma.

My heart goes out to that poor girl; and though I don't know her personally, I am told she is a nice, sweet girl.

If one decides to open a school of any kind, s/he is also deciding to be an "osek b'tzorchei tzibbur". Part of that is being responsible to the whole Klal, not just the segment that most appeals to you. Those so called "educators" should be ashamed of themselves.

No, there is not much I can do, but I know that the pain and suffering that they cause to innocent girls is beyond reproach, and I have bitachon that the ultimate Dayan Haemes will deal with them accordingly.

I hope and pray that when my daughter is high school age, this issue will be a matter long resolved. And for those of the readers in the same situation as me, well, best of luck to you too...and just in case it's not resolved, I propose we open a school ourselves!

nuch a chosid said...

I see the positive in it, the authority and ability to get things done that the Rabbonim still have in Lakewood, I don't think in Brooklyn, this crisis would be settled in a matter of hours, with achdos of all the schools.

Anonymous said...

Just for the record . I have been told by informed sources that there is a shortage of at least 50 -6 spots for this coming years High Schools in Lakewood . Yet no body is really doing anything about it other than when the crisis hits in September they will put up signs and denounce the "reshoim " and cruel principals and school administrators who don't care about Yidishe Techter . No wonder nobody wants to open a new High School . Basically all you get in return is many hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and being called all kinds of names and getting blamed for the Tziburs lack of interest in opening up new schools . Could somebody please explain why in the world it is the fault of the poor guy who was crazy enough to open a school ,that Lakewood has the biggest population growth ever in the history of Klal Yisroel and that all the money and efforts of opening up schools are being chanelled to Keren this and Keren that in Eretz Yisroel .

Anonymous said...

As usual the people who actually do something for the Klal quietly and without fanfare are the ones who get blamed for all the problems while the so called "askonim " who just tell others what to do are busy doing nothing .It is about time that people realize that the people who make schools in lakewood or elsewhere are not responsible for the towns' crazy growth and can not be expected to keep opening up classes like extra shifts on the assembly lines in factories . It is about time that the Askonim really did something like organizing new schools ,rather than just blame others

Anonymous said...

While they are at opening up the 2 new schools for next year they should also open up another 2 for the following year . I am sure that in the next couple of years the amount of 8th graders will probably be increasing by close to 100 over this year and within the next 5 or 6 years it will probably increase by 200 or more I dont think people want to realize that Lakewoods spiraling growth comes with a price tag .

Anonymous said...

Most of the Lakewood schools were founded about 12-25 years ago when the Town was exclusively very Yeshivish and had 1,000 families. They were founded by parents who wanted that type of chinuch and mesorah .The newer element in town really has no right to gripe that those schools dont want to accept kids who will inevitably change their character . They should rather make their own schools

Anonymous said...

In certain communities like Lakewood there may be limitations to what the principals can do . First of all a lack of space . Second since there are not really any modern schools or even less yeshivish like in New york ,it may not always be possible to both place everybody and still retain the unique character of each school .

Anonymous said...


How exactly do you want the schools to band together to solve the crisis ,when all the schools together dont have anywhere near the space required ?

Anonymous said...

How can you say that this year things were settled on time ? These 20 girls were the result of a system that had 50 or more girls with no school space last year because there were not enough schools . About 30 of them were shoehorned into the existing schools at the expense of huge unacceptable class sizes and for the other 15 to 20 or so a school was formed in September .Forming a school in September is the equivalent of suicide and everybody could have told you it was going to close down .

I wouldnt exactly call that scenario "everything being settled on time " The same or worse is going to happen this year ,but the Askonim will always put a PR spin on it that they are the heros and the existing schools are the villians . Since the average Joe on the street knows no better ,he buys the PR spin put out without thinking twice .

Fantasy Man said...

It seems like this Blogger also bought into that Spin as he has these fantasies that the schools can solve all the problems . Msybe if he would dig a little deeper he would see that the schools have exerted 150 % effort while the rest of the town is sleeping at the wheel watching as every year another 50 to 100 kids enter 8th grade without enough High Schools being created for them . But after all ,its always the fault of those big bad High School principals who are so rich and haughty .

Anonymous said...

While I will agree that there is definately a space issue, there is a bigger issue here to be dealt with as well. I am referring to the selection process that almost no girl does not undergo. I mean my gosh! When I went to seminary they didnt even make me go through that rigirous an interview!

I think a solution to some of the problem is to ensure that every single eighth grader be accepted into a school before ANY acceptance letters go out to ANYONE. This will alleviate the humiliation that those not "creme de la creme" undoubtly suffer.

Let's try NOT to be so picky. If we really want to be fair, let's start with looking at the imperfections in ourselves before pointing fingers at others (albeit younger) than us.

Every girl deserves a fair chance to grow into the Yiddishe Mamma and Bas Melech she has the potential to become. Let's ensure she has that!

Anonymous said...

To anonymous 2:28

I know someone who is friendly with one of the principals in Lakewood and this is what he told me .What you suggested was the norm up until 3 years ago. All the principals met BEFORE the letters went out and tried their best to do all the jockeying so that almost everbody had a place. This only worked before the big population explosion . As of 2 -3 years ago where every year there are another 50 or so kids added to the 8th grade pool ,no amount of jockeying and meetings can make up for the fact that there are 15 elementary school classes going into 10 High School classes .When you try to have all rush hour traffic from the 6 lane turnpike exit onto a narrow one lane country road you are going to have a problem if you dont widen that road . The problem is not with the schools . It is with the sleeping "public " who doesn't do anything to add more schools.

Anonymous said...

If there was an abundance of space there would be less pickiness . No school wants to have empty classes . If a principal has 100 applicants for every 25 slots in a class you cant blame them for trying to pick the best for their school . If there were only 23 applicants for those 25 spots because there was an abundance of schools ,you can bet they would be a lot less picky . Dont blame the principal ,blame the system that allows 100 girls to compete for so few spots . Masybe we should join Shuvu or Keren Nesivos Moshe or Chinuch Atzmai and then all the big Askanim would make parlor meetings to add schools and classes for our town

Anonymous said...

""If one decides to open a school of any kind, s/he is also deciding to be an "osek b'tzorchei tzibbur". Part of that is being responsible to the whole Klal, not just the segment that most appeals to you. Those so called "educators" should be ashamed of themselves. ""

To the above poster . Are you saying that if somebody opens a sc hool with his own money and hires a principal and staff who tell him that they have the capacity to educate 25 kids per class (for example ) and that they can educate a maximum of 2 classes per grade (for example ) that he has no choice but to fill his classes with an infinite amount of students and add an infinite amount of parallel classes as dictated by outside Askonim who have contributed nothing to his or her School ?

Are you also saying that if somebody opens a school with his private funds to specifically serve a niche group such as Chasidish ,or yeshivish or whatever that he automatically loses that right and must put non Chasidish or modern Orthodox or anything different than the type of parent body that helped him open the school . And if you agree tha a chasidish school can reject non chasidish and a yeshivish school can reject moden orthodox ,then who in your opinion has the right to make the decision as to who fits the school criteria ,the school administration and parent body or the outside Askonim who have done nothing for that school ?

What about the segment of the Klal that is very Ehrlich and frum but feels a need to have a TV at home or feels the need for their children to have internet ,do we also have the obligation in EVERY school to accept them even if the parent body of the school doesnt want their children exposed to that . I think if you would be honest and think in to the matter you would see that it is not so simply black and white as you make it out to be

Anonymous said...

In NY there is no problem because Chasidim act as A kehilah and provide schools for their growth . Everybody else has a normal population growth and there is a wide variety of types of girls high schools from very chasidish to semi chasidish to very yeshivish to modern yeshivish to not yeshivish to modernorthodox and everybody has a choice .

In Lakewood the Kehila doesnt exist and take care of the growth and there is no variety at all ,just 4 very yeshivishe schools for everybody. So of course there is going to be a problem . At some point either the minority (at this time ) of not so yeshivish kids will water down the existing schools and turn them all into something thery were not designed to be ,or in the alternative the existing schools will just say "We've had enough "and let the minority make their own schools .

Anonymous said...


You seem to be saying that every school needs to take any student if that student does not fit the criteria and may well have a negative influence on the existing student body . How does that jive with your previous post where you agreed that every school has the right to its own uniqueness .

The facts of yesterday just happen to be such .

When the school closed down all the other schools worked very hard to apportion the students between themselves at great stress and hardship to the existing schools . As a matter of fact the askonim were amazed that it actually happened . Most of the students were in their new schools already for several weeks . There was ONE particular school that had accepted its fair share of students that after careful thought and new information received ,decided that this ONE particular student was not compatible with their school .In fact several days ago even a very Prominent Choshuve person agreed that there may be merits to that position .

At some point a well to do individual who happens to know the student in question ,got involved and created the ruckus that the principal was wrong and needed to be taught a lesson

Without taking sides as to whether or not the school principal was correct in his determination , this was not as you portray ,a case of the schools not banding together to take these kids .They actually banded together weeks ago to resolve this and the kids were taken .

This was a case of a legitimate disagreement between a principal and outside askonim as to whether or not the information the principal had based his determination on was correct or not. This was a very narrow issue and to portray this as some example of schools not banding together is totally inaccurate and false . If anything it is a case of of an isolated disagreement between a principal well meaningly acting on what he believed to be true information to protect his school and outsiders who are more vocal and powerful than him . I am in no way taking sides on the actual issue involved but it was a very narrow disagreement that had nothing to do with how you have portrayed it .

Are you saying that no principal ever has the right to determine that ONE particular student is not compatible with their school ?

Independent Frum Thinker said...


Dear readers,
Before I begin responding personally to each of you, I must clarify my position on the matter.
There are two separate issues here, which some of you are confusing.
1 – When a small number of girls are left without a school.
2 – When large numbers are left out.
When only a few girls are left without a school, the ones most guilty are the schools. Can all the schools not band together and find place for a few girls? In such a scenario there is no excuse, and clearly that was the opinion pf the Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva, and they therefore threatened a shut-down if the problem was not solved.
However, when large numbers are left out, it is simply indicative of a population explosion, and the guilty ones are those in the community who have the ability to open new schools and don’t. In such a scenario one can not blame the schools, as they are bursting at the seams.
My original post suggestion that the schools band together to ensure a slot for every girl, was only in situation 1, where only small numbers of girls are being left out. In situation 2, new people must step up to accept the responsibility of starting new schools.

Okay, now to your comments.

Married and navigating –
Yes, Baruch Hashem.

It certainly can. The internet is no different, in this respect, than the more traditional media. If we can bring awareness to an issue, it has a large affect.

The Dreamer –
That’s part of the problem. The ones rejected, even if eventually accepted, feel terribly denigrated. Much good doesn’t usually come from that.

Anonymous Mar 7, 11:39 –
If it is true that only one girl was left out, that is a true disgrace. All the arguments of population growth are out the window. All the schools in a city could not find place for one girl?! I certainly hope you are wrong, and it was more than one girl left out.

Nuch a chosid –
Obviously there is much good that the Rabbonim wield enough power to force a temporary solution. But the larger issue is ensuring that the problem does not even get started.

Anonymous Mar 7, 11:59 –
Like I wrote before, in situation 2 one can not blame the schools. New people must step up and take upon themselves the burden of opening new schools.

Anonymous Mar 7, 12:11 –
Yes and no.
In situation 2 - yes. In situation 1 – no, then it is the school’s responsibility.
By the way, don’t think I didn’t realize that this comment was pasted from the comments to my original post.

Anonymous Mar 7, 12:13 –
It does, and it’s about time people realize it.

Anonymous Mar 7, 12:19 –
If it will change the character of the existing schools, then they should open their own schools, as I wrote in the comments to my original post.

Anonymous Mar 7, 12:24 –
True, but in situation 1 they are responsible. At least this year it seemed the issue was limited to very few girls, therefore population growth is not an excuse.

Anonymous Mar 7, 12:26 –
Like I wrote in the preface to my comments above, in situation 2 others must step up to open new schools. However in situation 1, like this year, they should have banded together to ensure that no girl is left out. Luckily at the last moment the Roshei Yeshiva forced a solution.

Anonymous Mar 7, 12:36 –
I never meant that what happened was ideal, but obviously better now than at the beginning of the next school year.

Fantasy man –
Apparently you have not read my two posts, and certainly not my comments to the original post. Never did I even insinuate the things that you write.
Either way my position is quite clear in the preface to this comment of mine. In situation 1, the schools are at fault. In situation 2, the community at large is.

Anonymous Mar 7, 2:28 –
I agree that to much focus is placed on details that are not very important to the ultimate goal of producing another generation of Nshei Chayil. If the focus would be more on internal Yiras Shamaim, and less on academic achievement, more girls would find their place.

Anonymous Mar 7, 2:57 –
If that is the case then it is situation 2, where the burden falls to the community.
However this year there only a few girls left out, and in situation 1 the schools are at fault. Obviously the Roshei Yeshiva shared that view too.

Anonymous Mar 7, 3:10 –
Interesting proposal. Lakewood should join Shuvu…hmmm at least you are an original thinker.

Anonymous Mar 7, 8:45 –
I don’t think he was saying that, as that obviously is unfair, as I wrote in my original post. He was merely referring to situation 1 where the schools should band together and take responsibility.

Anonymous Mar 7, 9:44 –
There is no question that in a Kehillah structure such problems are minimized. However, people must deal with the situation as is.

Anonymous Mar 7, 10:07 –
Thank you for sharing these details with us.
No, I would never say that a principal must accept someone not up to the school’s standards, as I emphasized in my original post. However I find it hard to believe, that with all the schools in Lakewood, not one could find place for one girl, without the Roshei Yeshiva threatening a shut-down. I wish I was wrong, but apparently the Roshei Yeshiva thought this way too.

Anonymous said...

you keep referring to situation 1 and situation 2 . I think that you dont realize that this years situation 1 was a direct outgrowth of last years situation 2 . Last year there were 50 more kids than available slots and even the Roshei Yeshivah realized that there was no way they could ask or cajole the schools to take any more as they were already way overpacked .Guarantees were given to schools that based on what they had already taken ,they would never again be asked to take more .That is why the school that closed down was originally opened .So if it was understandable that in September of last year the Rosh Yeshivas understood that although there were 15 or 20 Chosuve Yidishe Techter ,there was no way they could even ask the existing schools to take them and they had no choice but to open a school thst was doomed to fail even as it opened ; then why dont you realize that this is really an outgrowth of situation 2 not 1 . With your reasoning there should always be a place for one more child in every school and there would be no end to the class size .It is always "just 1 more why not ?

Anonymous said...

"However I find it hard to believe, that with all the schools in Lakewood, not one could find place for one girl, without the Roshei Yeshiva threatening a shut "

There aren't all that many schools . There are 4 High schools for about 10 elementary schools with 2 new elementary schools being formed almost every year .

Anonymous said...

I wonder whether you realize that the same schools that took many more kids per class than they should have last September and have kids almost sitting in the halls ,who were assured by everyone that "this time we realize you can not take even one more " ,are the same schools who now took in these extra girls .

Anonymous said...

I dont get it . If these are the same kids that were left out last year because situation 2 didn't find space for them in the existing schools and the burden fell on the community ,how do these same kids now turn into situation 1 where the burden falls on the schools ? The schools didnt get any smaller since then and no new schools are around .

Against Blog Loshon Hora said...

It seems like most of you dont have any idea of the facts . The powers at large in Lakerwood have been warned for several years that there is a population explosion and that there is a severe crisis and shortage of high school slots .Last year even with the opening of a new school that immediately filled up with almost 60 kids ,there was still a shortage of close to 40 spots .About 20 -25 of those kids were shoehorned into the existing schools to create insanely overcrowded class sizes and everyone including the Roshei Yeshiva ,etc agreed that it was impossible to force more kids on these already bloated class sizes . For the other 15-20 a new school was opened in September that these kids attended until recently . For various reason this new school was not succesful and recently closed down .Although the existing schools were told by everybody last September that it was understood that they were overcrowded and could not take any new kids ;The schools on their own agreed that these kids were a Rachmonus and accommodations were made several weeks ago to divide all those kids residing in Lakewood between the 4 existing schools .The kids were all accepted and were already in their new classes for a while . Subsequent to this ,one of the principals received information that led him to make a determination thatONE particular student was not compatible with his school and could possibly be detrimental . This was a very narrow disagreement between the principal and the askonim as to whether the information he was basing this on was in fact accurate or not . It is being portrayed on this blog as if the schools did not rise to the occasion .In fact just the opposite is true . These were the same kids that last year were deeemed by everybody including the Roshei Yeshiva not to have any spots in the existing schools ( for lack of space ) and yet the schools did not play hardball ,but out of Rachmonus put seats almost in the hallways in an effort to mitigate these kids hurt .To portray the schools and town in such a negative fashion just because one individual had an honest disagreement about whether or not ONE particular kid was detrimental to his school based on what he believed to be concrete reliable information ,is totally unjustified and shows the danger of these blogs that take unverified information and just write Loshon Hora on anyone they choose based on flimsy groundless hearsay .

solutions said...

Against Blog Loshon Hora,


"one of the principals received information that led him to make a determination thatONE particular student was not compatible with his school and could POSSIBLY be detrimental"

Then the principle should:
1) VERIFY the information from "objective" 2nd & 3rd sources.

2) then BEFORE saying NO arrange another school that is appropriate for the student.

Loshon Hora does NOT apply here. What is your motive to suppress public debate and solutions on such an important issue?

against blog loshon hora said...

My motive is not to suppress public debare . On the contrary I believe the public should know about the lack of space in schools . But I believe the focus should be on the REAL ISSUE which is that all these problems are caused by the fact the public is derelict in their responsibility in making enough schools for the population explosion . Focusing on whether or not a principal did or did not properly verify information about ONE student deflects attention and makes everyone feel that as long as the principals are put in line everything will be fine ,when the truth is that if there would have been enough schools to go around for last September ,these issues would not keep on repeating themselves . Everything quieted down and you will see that come next school year there will again be a hue and cry about the"reshoim " principals when in reality everyone knows today that there are not enough classes to accomodate everyone .15 elementary school classes from 8 schools just do not fit into 10 high school classes from 4 schools .But it is a lot easier to sit around and point fingers at others than it is to actually raise money hire staff and maintain a new school

Anonymous said...

Im not sure what solutions there are to be debated .It seems very simple . The old laws of supply and demand . If there would be more supply than demand then the principals would not be so picky and everybody would have a place .Look at boys Mesivtas . There is an abundance of them because there are many motivated people who want to teach Torah . The result is that although your son may not necessarily get into the 1 or 2 top rated mesivtas ,there are still any number of mesivtas that will actually call you and ask you to please send your son to them .Any bochur unless he is a real troubled or at risk kid can get into some decent mesivta somewhere . And there are even Mesivtas for the problem and at risk kids .Again the laws of supply and demand at work . Since there doesnt seem to be much motivation to make girls high schools ( other than to be called all kinds of nasty names and become a full time fund raiser ) then I guess the public at large needs to step up to the plate and shoulder the responsibility .

megapixel said...

okay, let us open a new school - online. then we can take endless amounts of kids. I will post the days lessons on a blog, and the kids will read it and comment. tests will be done via email. Bais AOL anyone want to sign on?

Anonymous said...

Would it not stand to reason that if some group of people have the authority to close all the schools ,that they then also have the authority and responsibility to open schools as necessary ?

Anonymous said...

Settled in time ??

These kids were the same kids who last year had to wait till September to finally get into school because there was not enough place elsewhere . The school made for them never made it and they were again on the street .Another school should have been made to replace theirs but wasnt't and they were stuffed into the old schools that really had no place for them . I don't call that on time . There is again no new school for the next batch of kids who will probably have some reject school opened for them in mid September .I guess when they are again placed and stuffed next Peasch when their school closes down ,we'll say Oh glad it was taken care of on time . When will the town fathers ,whoever they are ,get the message that schools must be created before there is blood in the streets not after . Oh , I guess as long as you can blame the schools ,then everything will be fine .

Anonymous said...

Did anybody see the letter in the "The Voice of Lakewood" that these girls sent in. I think someone should post it. For me, the letter reinforced the fact that these girls are people with feelings and most of the times, most people are guilty of treating them as numbers and faceless entities.

Anonymous said...

My 15 year old daughter has been sitting on the couch all year, no place for her. School after school just says no, and NOW they say, "how can we accept a girl who's been out???? She's missed so much and won't be able to catch up."

Anonymous said...

I have one question for all you posters . You now know that there nowhere near enough High Schools for next year .What exactly have you done to see that there should be enough schools for all these kids with feelings ? The only ones I can't blame are the principals who made the existing schools who at least have done something that 75 % of the kids in town have a school .Why is nobody else doing anything other than post nasty comments about those that have done something ?

Anonymous said...

I wrote earlier that all but one girl had been accepted into other schools. I believe I am correct in saying this, and I will even take this one step further. This girl called the Mashgiach of Lakewood herself numerous times, crying to him, asking him what is wrong with her. My heart goes out to her...nebach nebach nebach. I hope that she has the strength to get through this - I would be most certainly be a complete basket case.

Megapixel...I'm with you about the online school. Oh, wait! We're not allowed to have internet (bad bad word) access!!!

Independent Frum Thinker said...

Anonymous Mar 8, 1:05 –
You may be right that was an outgrowth of situation 2. However, we must deal with each problem separately. A long term solution must be sought, namely the opening of more schools, yet leaving one girl out of school now is still completely wrong.

Anonymous Mar 8, 1:08 –
Good point.
Like I wrote earlier; a long term solution must be developed before it is to late.

Anonymous Mar 8, 1:12 –
You may be right, and a long term solution must be reached. But for all the schools to not find place for one girl is unacceptable.

Anonymous Mar 8, 3:07 –
Even though they were left out last year doesn’t excuse anyone of not finding them place now. Obviously, a long term solution is necessary, but we mustn’t ruin Yiddishe Techter on the way.

Against blog loshon hora –
Like I keep writing; the problem must be worked on from both a long-term angle and short-term one. Even though there exists a looming crisis due to the population explosion, that does not absolve the schools of their responsibility to find place for one girl. No one is labeling principals Reshoim, nor is anyone denying that there exists a major shortage, but for all the schools to leave out one girl is still inexcusable.
By the way, dismissing all blogs due to the comments of some people which you disagree with, is making yourself guilty of the same Loshon Hora you purport to be against.

Solutions –
Exactly. Arrange for her a different place before saying no, as I wrote in my original post.

Anonymous Mar 8, 7:30 –
Absolutely. The public must step up and face this major shortage before it drowns them.

Megapixel –
Finally a more light-hearted comment.

Anonymous Mar 8, 8:00 –
Excellent point. Hopefully they will realize that too, and delegate the right people to do so.

Anonymous Mar 9, 4:28 –
As I wrote in my earlier comment; this situation was not ideal. But it was still better now than at the beginning of the next school year.

Anonymous Mar 11, 8:43 –
Very powerful letter.

Anonymous Mar 11, 10:00 –
It’s a terrible situation to be in. We sincerely wish you much Hatzlocho.

Anonymous Mar 11, 10:20 –
How do you know that some of these posters are not working on solutions? Almost all of the comments here are anonymous, so how can you make assumptions? I know for a fact that just by me posting these two posts, and the subsequent uproar it caused, ripple effects to the benefit of the community have been caused.

Anonymous Mar 12, 1:08 –
Yes, it’s a terrible situation to be in, and my heart goes out for her.

Anonymous said...

The title of your post is NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND

When somwhere between 35,000 to 45,000 frum yiden live in a town without a structure of a central Kehilah that is responsible for all educational and religious needs ,that title is an impossible dream . As a matter of fact it is an open miracle that up till now it is basically true with minor exceptions and a lot of pain .The Rosh yeshivas are well meaning and try to react and put out fires ,but they dont have the authority or organization to create schools as necessary in advance of the lack of space crisis that is becoming a standard yearly event .

Independent Frum Thinker said...

Anonymous Mar 15, 2:41 -
If what you are saying is true, the community must stand up and start organizing and planning for the future.

Anonymous said...

By the way did you ask all of those left out girls if their parents bothered applying to some of the schools that may have had room for them ?Most likely quite a few of them made a conscious decision that only certain schools are good for them even though those schools may be full over capacity ,and would not apply to the other schools even if they had room .

Even though this does not minimize their pain and suffering , but it also does not require an alrady full school to accept them ,especially if there is an alternative ;albeit one that the parent may not like so much .

Mel said...

As an out of towner, what I don't get is why these girls can't attend Bais yaakov in another town. Brooklyn, Monsey, Elizabeth, Cincinnati, Denver, Chicago, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Toronto.

All these schools have girls from out of town. What's the big deal to send a girl to a good school out of town. These schools have dorms, and campuses and much stronger curriculum than the Lakewood System.

The problem obviously lies with the parents who feel a need to run with the cohn's, and send their kid to the very best bais yaakov.
"Oh no, you wont get a good shidduch if you go to school out of town."
Come on, What guy knows the difference anyway? I sure don't.

Anonymous said...

Let's take this a step closer . Even if it is understandable that parents might not want to send a young daughter out of town , who gives them the right to apply only to the "in" school of the day and then cry when their child is not in any school in September because the "in " school had no place and they chose not to apply to the not so "in " school ,because it might not be so good for shiduchim .

Mel said...


Anonymous said...

Parents should look into the option of sending thier daughters to out of town schools.When bais kaila was the only school parents who felt thier daughter would be better off elsewhere did.

Independent Frum Thinker said...

Anonymous Mar 19, 8:11 –
If that is the case you would be correct. However, my understanding was that they were left without a school to attend at all.

Mel –
In terms of seminary you have a point, but not with regards to high schools. Many parents prefer their high-school aged girls to be home with them.

Anonymous Mar 19, 11:01 –
As I wrote above if that is the case you are right. But it is not always that way.

Anonymous Mar 20, 11:30 –
I think that is a last resort. Many parents prefer their high-school aged girls to be home with them and not out-of-town.

Anonymous said...

I have it from very reliable and informed sources that many parents ,especially in Lakewood are very selective and have chosen not to apply to certain schools .In fact probably a good number of the girls who the new school that closed down was created for , did not apply to each of the 4 schools in Lakewood .Of course once they dont apply then come September you cant expect that school to just welcome them with open arms .But had they made a good faith effort to apply to every possible school at tye regular time of applications ,many of them would have had a school without feeling like "rejects" "leftovers" or other names that they claim they feel like.

Anonymous said...

This once again shows the irresponsible nature of blogging . It is common knowledge to those involved that many of these girls chose not to apply to every available school .Yet the bloggers take positions against schools and principal based on partial info and unsubstantiated facts .

Anonymous said...

Of course they were left without a school . Once you make such a strong statement that you wont even APPLY to a particular school ,the school gets the message that the child and parent does not want to go there under any circumstances . Then in September when the kid is on the street ,even if they reluctantly agree to go anywhere ,the rejected school rightfully takes the position that if we were not even good enough to apply to ,you and your child wont be happy here and we dont want you . Ask any educator . A parent or child that does not want to be in your school is the worst nightmare for the school . Those kids inevitably are discipline problems because they dont really want to be there in the first place .

LakewoodShmuck said...

and here we go again